Natalie Keany speaking with young woman in Breathwork session:

Chapter 1: Introduction to breath work

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My name is Simon Bose and today I am joined by Natalie Keaney to talk about breath work and therapy. Hello Natalie.

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Hi Simone.

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Well, you're you're not a stranger to me obviously. I know I sort of said it that way but um you are actually my teacher

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and my dear friend. Um, and I've learned a lot from you and primarily it's been

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around the body and breath work and a particular type of breath work called conscious connected breath work which a

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lot of people sometimes term it as holotropic um and they know it like that but conscious connected breath work is a

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little bit like that but there there's a slight difference um which we can go into but um me being a therapist I came

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to this with this kind of feeling that there was a gap in my work that whilst

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there you know talking and um working with your parts and your inner child and uh you know working in that way there is

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a part that is really not accessed and that is working with the body and the breath uh and then I found you and I

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you're a teacher um but you also a practitioner and you have been doing this for a while Now um and I just

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wanted to ask you how did you find um breath work and the art of conscious connected breath.

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Okay. So back in 201 I think it was 2013 I had sort of reached a point where I'd

Chapter 2: Natalie's personal journey

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was really struggling with anxiety and depression and was um like really looking for a way of healing that. And

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I' I'd done a lot of work with psychotherapy and felt I'd gone as far as I could go with that and went off on a journey and learned

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loads of alternative healing techniques and then came across breath work in India and

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within days of doing this course that I that I did in India it changed so much

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for me. Wow. Yeah. And it was just very clear, very obvious to me that I had to

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keep learning it, not just for myself, but also learning it to share with others.

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What was what is it that most surprised you about it?

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It was It was like a super highway into

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I guess what felt like truth of who I am.

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beneath the the trauma, the beneath the the fears, the anxieties, the depression

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that I was experiencing, it just I was able to access this really true the truest sense of myself.

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Yeah. and and and from my experience because obviously when I came to you to explore the idea of learning this for my

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clients obviously the caveat of that was that you you know you have to kind of experience it for yourself. Um,

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and I had the same kind of sort of wow moment for me was I never quite knew how

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much I had buried within myself and in my body and how I hold myself.

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Yeah. and how I'm constrained by so many of my beliefs and how actually just even in the way that I sit and some of the

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pains that I had in my body like discomforts, stomach pain, um sometimes getting heart palpitations, I hadn't

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quite connected that with the fact that there was longheld um emotions trapped in there from some

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of it from when I was younger and some of it just from the general stress of life and feeling very overwhelmed

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and I had some incredibly profound moments with you Natalie as you as you know and I don't mind sharing that today because I think it's it's actually

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really important that people know that there is something out there that goes beyond the the talking therapy and

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actually can complement it like the two together actually work very very well and I know that you've also said that

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you know this work is is is amazing but actually it's always good to have a space to reflect after in therapy. So

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they they do really work very handinhand with mind and body to mind. Yeah. In that sense. Yeah.

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What would you say it how would you describe conscious connected breath work? Because I guess there's going to be a lot of people that don't even actually know what we're talking about up until now.

Chapter 3: Understanding conscious breath

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Okay. So conscious connected breath work. It's it's kind of in the name. The name's a dead giveaway. So conscious we're being really conscious. We're

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being really um present and aware of the breath like all our attention is going into the breath and connected because

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typically conscious connected breath work you're connecting the inhale and the exhale and closing down the pause in

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between. So it's like a circular breath and breath speaks for itself and work it

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takes takes a bit of work as you know to commit to being in this cycle of breath for a period of time

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and it's an interesting one because when we get taught breath work you know a lot of us know about breath work generally

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anyway about the breath that calms us down that activates the uh parasympathetic ic nervous system, the

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the system that calms our body down, you know, to breathe in and breathe out through the nose and long breaths out calm the body down. Um, so people would

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be surprised to hear that actually a breath that is more about breathing out through the through the mouth can actually be healing and it because it's

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almost like you're creating like a hyperventilation situation, wouldn't you? It's something like that. Yeah.

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Would you say that Natalie or it's sort of like is bringing up it's raising the heart rate. It's um activating the body.

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It's bringing things up. But in that by being in it, there's real healing that can happen and real like release because

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you're staying in it for a certain amount of time and it's how you're doing it as well in a safe way that is the powerful part.

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Yeah. Absolutely. So we are working with both the sympathetic and the parasympathetic nervous system and and

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absolutely right. So when we go into this conscious connected breath work we are creating activation of the

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sympathetic nervous system. So you will feel sensations in your body, but we also, at least the the way we've been

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working is we're really honoring every individual's nervous system, their trauma history,

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their biology. So we're not using a one-sizefits-all approach. So it's really important to have a bit of history on the client so

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we know how to work with them. And yeah, just guiding it step by step, tuning in, checking in how how's the breath, how's the body responding to the breath.

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And we do create that activation. And within that, there might be some release of emotions. There might be a connection

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to an old memory that's been tucked away. and also using the embodiment work to access these areas of tension where there can often be a stored memory.

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And when we've worked with the sympathetic activation, the body can then go into this state of parasympathetic, this rest and digest.

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And usually clients leave feeling incredibly incredibly relaxed and peaceful. M and it's sort of like this

Chapter 4: The science of emotional release

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profound experience of you went to probably the most intense experience of your maybe what you fear in the body

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that you hide from and actually you're okay. Yeah. Right.

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And it's like oh actually outside in the world it doesn't seem I can handle it better. something that shifts for people

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um over time along with sometimes having that euphoric feeling as well that just the load having been taken off like

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you've literally discharged something from your body and that that's exactly what it is. You know, we're discharging that energy that

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can be held in the body from a a stress response, an incomplete stress response from the past. Yeah.

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Yeah. I always remember this video that you showed us in the in in our training and it was it it was really uh really

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hit home just how much as humans we don't connect with our animal selves almost. We're so sort of like we, you know, how we should sit, how we should

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be in life to be acceptable, to fit in to to all these things. You know, we're very civilized animals. And then you,

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what you showed us in one of the videos was an animal that was allowed to release its trauma from an incident that

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happened and they overcome it in that moment and then they can move on. Yeah.

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And animals somehow they get that chance to do that. They shake it out. They there's a lot of shaking and trembling and sound coming from them.

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Yeah.

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Um it looks a little bit frightening like what on earth is going on? But once you understand, oh that's what they're doing after let's say an attack or something frightening happening.

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Yes. Right.

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They move on though, don't they? Whereas we as humans, we hold it all in.

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How much we keep in history of things, lifetimes of stress. Yeah. Right.

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We need to shake it out.

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Yeah. And it's it's amazing what can come in a breath work session, right?

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Those memories, the things that we completely forgotten about and and and they can come in all kinds of

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ways like through the smell sense or through a a physical felt sense in the body or an image.

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It's amazing. It's um when I um had my experiences, I've had a varied experiences, but it is it is sort of

Chapter 5: Experiencing deep transformation

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like you go to an alternative place. It feels quite trippy. Um because this is after a period for me of having done

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that conscious connected breath work maybe for about 20 25 minutes. I've been I've been in that and this part of my brain has switched off and I'm purely in

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the body and has been and and another interesting fact being that you know 80% of communication goes from our body to

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our mind. So there's very so much that we have haven't tapped into there. And I just remember I was with my body and I

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had my stomach my stomach was aching. I was shaking.

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I was feeling anger and I didn't know where that came from. I was like where is this anger from? And it was such a

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relief to feel it to really be in it because I I have never been very good with anger in my life. I will not let it

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be. I will push it down. I will quash it. It's not acceptable. Whenever I've expressed anger, something bad happens, you know, a conflict happens, it becomes

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much bigger than I can handle in my life. So everything is pushed down. So when I was able with you to express that

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anger go and I you know there was an encouragement of noise and movement and you know if I want to talk to you I can

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do that in that space. Um, and you guide me. And my gosh, it was a

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relief. It was a relief. It was It was surprising. I learned that I did have anger there. Um, and I learned to be

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with it and stay in it and then express it and then release it. Yeah.

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And I have to tell you, I obviously that wasn't the last time that I experienced that. I experienced that over sessions.

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I feel a difference in my body.

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What do you feel? What's changed? was different.

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I feel more open. I feel um certain conversations don't trigger me anymore about certain people in my life. They

Chapter 6: Readiness and the therapeutic path

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don't trigger me at all. I'm able to sit with it and go, "Okay, that's what it is." I can even be with it in humor.

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It's it's amazed me. And they're they're relationships that all my life have made me like this clenching,

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you know, like that. And I'm not. I'm actually and the people in my life who have uh continued to have conversations

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with me about certain people, they're like, "This has completely changed you.

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I cannot believe it." And I said, "It's the breath work. It is the conscious connected breath work. I'm going to keep saying it now because it is

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transformational." And for me and for other people that I've worked with since learning from you, working with my

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clients with it, um, even a first session is amazing, but you you really should keep going because

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then you start to unravel and you have different experiences every time. You might travel to the past. You might be in something maybe more present.

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It might be that you have a euphoric experience and actually you're with a a lighter side of yourself. you don't know where it's necessarily going to go.

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Yeah.

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But you have to sort of let go and trust.

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So that is something I learned cuz I wasn't very good at trusting. So that's also very important. You have to if you're thinking about doing something

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like this, what would you say to somebody in terms of their mindset and the type of person that might want to do it?

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I'd say if you're the kind of person that maybe you you just feel like you need to make a change in your life or

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you have maybe been disconnected from yourself, your body, your feelings, expressions in some way and feel like

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you really want to dive into something that's really quite transformative. But a person has to be ready for it, right?

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It's not for everyone.

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And yeah, it can be a very very potent journey of transformation. And it's it's

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not a walk in the park because we we face ourselves. We have to where we get to look at all the parts of

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ourselves that we've neglected or we've ignored or pushed away. And as you mentioned earlier, it's actually not so

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bad once we're in it just to say hello to those parts of ourselves to feel it and and then something shifts, something

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moves, right? And we start to change that relationship with ourselves and and so many other benefits come from it.

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But there needs to be a willingness to go there.

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And I think you probably sometimes notice when people aren't ready. Yeah. And you know that's okay too.

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Maybe they'll get it on a certain level, certain surface level. They I've noticed people who aren't necessarily there

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embracing it. Then they may not be ready, but it might be that they fall asleep, which is I did a couple of times.

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There was one where I actually fell asleep with you. I remember.

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Do you remember? And then there was one where I um didn't want to do the the deeper breath and and was sort of

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enjoying just lying there and maybe you um putting pressure point you know touching pressure points and things like

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that. So I found that quite soothing but I wasn't going any deeper. But actually I did get something even from that even from even on that level.

Chapter 7: Evolution of practice

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Well that's it. I mean even if there is a willingness from somebody and and they arrive they come for a session and

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still there's a lot of hesitation there might be fear there might be an anxiety about letting go right because it

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requires a certain amount of letting go of control and so we just go in gently we go in softly

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and even the most gentlest way of working with this breath can be really really powerful. Yeah. Yeah. And um I

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was going to ask you about your experiences with it yourself.

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Like how how has it been for you in your personal journey if that's not too intimate? Like because you've probably you've been doing this for years anyway.

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So there must be so many experiences for you. But um yeah.

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Yeah. so many and and so I've I've been doing this work not only with others but for myself

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since like 2013 and still I'm having the most amazing

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revelations and journeys with myself in breath work and you know I'm I'm so curious to learn more you know I'm

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always learning more doing more trainings um but some of some of the earlier days

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um Those the breath work sessions in the early days were huge.

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I mean at that point I was really struggling with some addictions and and it was a it was a coping mechanism. It was a way to deal with

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life and not feel all the things that I'd pushed down. And then when I started doing the breath work, I started to feel

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everything and and it became very clear that I had had quite a traumatic childhood.

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And I got to face it and meet it all. But there's

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sort of a gift with breath work. It always comes in in a sort of kind and compassionate way. It's not like a sort of horrific experience.

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Yeah. even though it can feel intense.

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And so I worked through some really big things from childhood. Um, and then as

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time went on, it became less about stories from the past and more about my connection to my body.

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And so now I can go into a breath work session and it's not necessarily about a

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story or a particular theme, but it's more of me scanning my body, noticing what's going on in my body, where

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there's a bit of tightness or tension or an ache or a pain and moving my body and and I breathe very slowly and deeply

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nowadays. Um, and so I I take myself on these journeys of just moving my body and breathing into my body and meeting

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myself exactly as I am in that moment. And quite often there will be um a tearful

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release or or a little bit of um activation and physical release.

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Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing. I was just thinking just this second. It has a I feel like you can talk about this in a very scientific way, can't you?

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But then there's also what people say is the woo woo element to it. And some people can feel kind of intimidated by

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by that area. And I know that when I've spoken to some of my clients, they're like, "Oh, that's a little bit, you know, not scientific."

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And they sort of don't they're skeptical. But I find that if I explain the science to them that that does help them and it doesn't

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have to go down that path, you know. Um, and I just wondered what would you say to people who maybe are a little bit scared of that that woo woo element.

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It's too spiritual. I'm going to end up, you know, joining a cult or something like some breath work cult.

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Well, I think it really depends on the individual and you get a sense for who you're working with, right? And

Chapter 8: Science and emotional mastery

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the beautiful thing about breath work is that yes, there's a science to it and also it's there's a physiological

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aspect, you know, what we're experiencing in the body, there's an emotional aspect, there's an energetic aspect, and there quite often is a spiritual aspect.

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So we can give them some information about from all of those arenas or just

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stick to what works for that person in a way that they can digest it, digest that information.

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And it can literally be you are doing a breath work that puts you into a state

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that um shuts down the preffrontal cortex thinking area and you are being

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with your body. You're bringing up the emotions that are that are there that you've sort of suppressed. And what you're doing is by being with those

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emotions, you're allowing yourself to build a confidence with sitting with them in a way that we we spend all our time trying to distract ourselves and in

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that we build a confidence and a mastery of ourselves.

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Right. So then so you can actually look at it just that way.

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Absolutely. And and this is such a key point and and one of the aspects that I really love is developing emotional

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intelligence, right? So when we can actually acknowledge when we're feeling something let's say let's say anger as you

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mentioned that earlier we can acknowledge okay there's this anger in my body take away the label of

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anger it might feel hot and fiery and it might start in the belly and then just sort of emanate throughout the body

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something happens to the posture the breath the jaw the the look in the eyes right so when an emotion arises es things are happening in the body.

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And so to recognize this and then to sit with it and feel just stay with the feeling aspect of it

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and allow yourself give yourself permission to say, "Yeah, I my anger is valid and

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I'm allowed to feel this and make the sounds and the movements and and whatever comes."

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And when we give ourselves this, when we're out there in the world dealing with anger, we get to recognize it. We

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get to work with it and feel it in a way that is safe and it's healthy rather

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than pushing it down and then it coming out sideways and and in the wrong ways projecting all over

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other people, impacting our relationships, our life. Absolutely.

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All of it. Yeah. And and the way we see ourselves.

Chapter 9: Embodiment and childhood trauma

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Yeah. All of that. Obviously, I've gone through the training and I've had sessions with you. So, I am at a phase

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now where I do it for myself and I usually spend about 10 15 minutes doing that. And every time I get into that

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breath, you know, 2 minutes in start to feel tingly. 5 10 minutes in I am feeling it all. And I allow myself in a

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way that I never did before to let my body speak. I'll let it move. And because I'm also on my own, I I allow

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myself to kind of move in ways that I've never moved in my life. Like uh movements that I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I'm doing this." And you you feel free.

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You feel like you are a little bit anim animalistic, like you've gone back to your rawness and the layers strip away.

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Yeah. and you go somewhere and then you come out of it after you've done it and you've taken yourself somewhere and you've come back and it's that felt so good and it's

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amazing that we all have that ability with something that's actually free you know like you know that we have within us the breath this powerful thing and

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it's not just breathing in and out there's you know it's a powerful thing.

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Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And especially when you you bring in that embodiment part of it and the movement, right? You know,

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that's just taking the breath work to the next level. I find when we can really just scan the body, see what's going on

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and and make those movements, follow the natural impulses of the body to to move because it is there. The body

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wants to move. It's an alive organic thing, right? That wants wants to move.

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But since I don't know around 7 years old, we're taught to to have very

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restricted movements and expressions to fit in and and be acceptable, to be to be loved. We have to behave in a certain way.

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And so, yes, in our breath work sessions, we get to be that 5-year-old child again that's curiously playful,

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exploring the body, using the breath to do that. And you do actually through the breath you do go to places like your exactly what you just said your

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four-year-old your three-year-old you know people have gone to their birth. Yes. You know, that's another really amazing thing because um

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something that I had never realized about um uh people's experiences is a lot of people have had birth uh

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experiences where umbilical cords would have been tied around their neck and really difficult births and in that that impacted their nervous system in some

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way and by going to breath they actually go to that place and it's interesting Natalie I don't know what I've never experienced that myself with anybody but I'm sure you have.

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Yeah. So rebirthing experience and you help them with that.

Chapter 10: Practitioner availability

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Yeah. Yeah. So just healing any trauma that has preverbal Yeah.

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Yeah. that's that's being held there.

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And can and will show up later in life. Yeah. All of that. Yeah. Yeah.

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Um Natalie, you are an amazing practitioner and a teacher. Um, so if people actually, you know, want to know

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how to find you, where would they find you? And if they wanted to do a course with you or they wanted to actually, because you do online as well, don't

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you? Um, I do.

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But you you are you are mainly in person, aren't you, when it comes to your work because Yeah, it's more powerful that way, isn't it?

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Well, I mean, it's it's definitely um adjusted to the online setting. So, it can be done online for sure. Um, but it

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it would perhaps be a little bit different than an in-person session.

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Um, so yeah, I work in person um and online based in London and we have a training

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27 minutes, 9 seconds

program every year in London and Belgium. exciting for those that want to learn to facilitate or those that just want to

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27 minutes, 18 seconds

jump in and explore and make some shifts and transformations in their life.

27:26

27 minutes, 26 seconds

Yeah. And we do I do one-to-one sessions. I do group sessions. You're a busy lady.

27:34

27 minutes, 34 seconds

I because it's growing, isn't it? It's growing.

27:37

27 minutes, 37 seconds

It is. And it's it's beautiful work. If if the work is done in a in a sa safe and traumainformed way, it's beautiful

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27 minutes, 46 seconds

and it's really really impacting people's lives in a positive way and and yes, it's growing. More and more

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27 minutes, 54 seconds

people are feeling the positive impacts of of conscious connected breath work.

28:00

28 minutes

Why do you think people are looking for it now? Because people the right people do find it, don't they? They come to you. But why do you think people are looking for it more maybe?

28:13

28 minutes, 13 seconds

Well, sorry treat question. Maybe that's it's a big question. So may not have the answer for that. I was just wondering

Chapter 11: Conclusion and final reflections

28:20

28 minutes, 20 seconds

many reasons. Um it can be I mean the general state of the world

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28 minutes, 28 seconds

that we're living in. um there does seem to be more disconnect and that's also

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28 minutes, 37 seconds

um almost balancing out on the other end of the scale where people are looking for more connection to themselves and others.

28:45

28 minutes, 45 seconds

So that's one reason that people are doing it. Another reason is physical aches, pains, um recovering from trauma,

28:55

28 minutes, 55 seconds

injuries, um things that can't be diagnosed but people are feeling in their bodies which may be related to emotions or trauma.

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29 minutes, 8 seconds

It's it's Yeah, it's fascinating. Um I was working with somebody who had um a lot of jaw ache and was grinding their teeth a lot.

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29 minutes, 16 seconds

Yeah. Um and then we started to connect it actually a lot with shame and and that swallowing of emotions in a way and that was quite powerful. So

29:24

29 minutes, 24 seconds

we did a lot of work move with movement with the jaw and also the pelvis because as you have taught me you know the jaw and the pelvis are actually fascinatingly linked.

29:34

29 minutes, 34 seconds

Yes.

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29 minutes, 35 seconds

You know so if you shake and you release there actually you know has an impact both ways doesn't it?

29:40

29 minutes, 40 seconds

Absolutely. Um, and we could talk about this endlessly of the work you can do with shaking the hips and movement of the hips and work there and

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29 minutes, 48 seconds

you know and how that impacts you know release of trauma like a lot of people hold it there don't they? Jaw and pelvis.

29:54

29 minutes, 54 seconds

Yeah. So around around the jaw the pelvis the throat all that expression all those words those opinions that

30:03

30 minutes, 3 seconds

never got to be expressed never got to speak. Exactly. It's true isn't it? Yeah. the shoulders.

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30 minutes, 9 seconds

I know that's my particular place of holding.

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30 minutes, 12 seconds

Um yeah, around around the the belly, the pelvis, um pelvic floor, buttocks, that holding. Yeah. Yeah.

30:22

30 minutes, 22 seconds

Yeah. We don't know where we're holding.

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30 minutes, 23 seconds

Just anyone right now should just actually do a little body scan and notice where am I holding? Just even as a

30:30

30 minutes, 30 seconds

little exercise and you'll notice it's being more attuned to it. If anyone was to do anything right now just as a

30:38

30 minutes, 38 seconds

little thing, maybe it is just to scan the body and notice it a little bit more.

30:42

30 minutes, 42 seconds

Yeah, absolutely. To just sit or lay down and just bring your attention into your body

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30 minutes, 51 seconds

and maybe scan from head to toe what is going on.

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30 minutes, 57 seconds

What is going on? staying super present with yourself and just noticing those areas like what's going on around my eyes right now.

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31 minutes, 5 seconds

Is there am I scrunching up my eyes? Are the muscles around my eyes engaged?

31:10

31 minutes, 10 seconds

What's going on with my jaw? Is there a clenching? Is there a holding?

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31 minutes, 14 seconds

Maybe I could bring some movement or some touch there.

31:19

31 minutes, 19 seconds

And what about my throat? What's what's happening here right now? And you might notice that there's a a physical sensation.

31:28

31 minutes, 28 seconds

It might be a bit more abstract. You might sort of tune into one area of your body and feel like yeah, it's really open and expansive there,

31:36

31 minutes, 36 seconds

like the ocean. You might sort of see colors or textures. And then you might come down to your pelvis and and feel,

31:44

31 minutes, 44 seconds

oh gosh, it's really tight there. It almost feels like I'm I'm wearing a corset around my body. You know, there might be these visuals. That's one of

31:53

31 minutes, 53 seconds

the things I have is tight ache aching here and there. That's what I noticed.

31:58

31 minutes, 58 seconds

Uh right.

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31 minutes, 59 seconds

My stomach and my throat. So there were areas that were Yeah, it's amazing.

32:05

32 minutes, 5 seconds

Um well, Natalie, I feel like we could Oh, we could go on for hours, could we? We'll do we'll do another one actually.

32:12

32 minutes, 12 seconds

We'll talk about maybe from a different angle. Uh maybe the therapeutic angle with it because those two going together

32:20

32 minutes, 20 seconds

are very powerful as well. Like I've been exploring parts of people and connecting it with the body work and the breath work. And you know people are

32:28

32 minutes, 28 seconds

saying actually you know when I see them after a a breath work session I feel like my almost like my six-year-old that

32:36

32 minutes, 36 seconds

that puts pressure on me and as a perfectionist is weighing on my chest and breathing into that. I recognize that. And so you know actually even just

32:44

32 minutes, 44 seconds

focusing in on that and breathing into that every day is a recognition. Okay, I put pressure on myself. be kinder, recognize it.

32:52

32 minutes, 52 seconds

So, it helps you to connect the dots a little bit.

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32 minutes, 55 seconds

Yeah. And and give that give that child version an expression. You know, how does it want to move? What does it want to say? What does it want to do now? Yeah.

33:06

33 minutes, 6 seconds

And you know, try and uh people who are a bit skeptical and feel a little bit cheesy, that's also a part of you saying, "Oh, this is, you know, it's

33:14

33 minutes, 14 seconds

another part sort of trying to get you away from resolving things sometimes." you know the part that goes don't know about this you know

33:22

33 minutes, 22 seconds

well it's safety isn't it the mind that itself is a safety the mind just wants us to be in the

33:29

33 minutes, 29 seconds

familiar and the known and and take us back there so that's that's why it's so important to just go

33:37

33 minutes, 37 seconds

in slowly and and not shake the foundation so much that the person leaves feeling like oh gosh who am I

33:45

33 minutes, 45 seconds

anymore you know what happened to just like it's okay. It's okay to feel the fear and the anxiety and and the

33:54

33 minutes, 54 seconds

apprehension about going into this work and and honor that like bring that into the session.

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34 minutes, 1 second

You are such a gentle practitioner and I learned so much from you. Um, and I'm so glad that actually, you know,

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34 minutes, 10 seconds

this is my first podcast recording and I got you to come and talk to me about this because I am so passionate about it and I felt there was no one better to talk about this with than you.

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34 minutes, 20 seconds

Um, so thank you, Natalie.

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34 minutes, 22 seconds

Thank you so much for having me. I have so much appreciation for you and the work that you're doing and and this Yeah.

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34 minutes, 31 seconds

We need to spread the word, don't we? We do. We do. We do.

With thanks to Simone Bose of Simone Bose Therapy

www.simonebose.com